Trefalgar 
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 11/16/2007 9:58 AM |
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HELP i'm addicted to respec's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Latest rage for rogues is AR/Prep Hemo especially for PvP. Gonna give it a try. I'm also giving Riposte a try again now that warriors and weapon-chainers are no longer 100% immune. I'm also going to give Setup a try again (45% chance +1 combo with dodge or spell resist). I'm curious to see if it will proc off Cloak of Shadows resists too.
I'm losing combat potency and hopefully gaining faster combo point generation. Losing combat potentcy isn't so bad with a 35 energy Hemo as main attack.
With PvP AP being much lower than raiding gear AP, I saw someone suggest points in Malice (+% crit) instead of Deadliness (+% AP). That seems to make a lot of sense especially with the change to Mace spec adding +5% crit damage.
Trefal's new spec starting tonight:
AR/Prep Hemo (Maces) Rogue
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0hZ0gEdr0t000oZxMjoGhRo
Assassination (3 points)
3/5 Malice [extra filler points, picking this over deadliness for pvp burst]
Combat (31 points)
5/5 Lightning Reflexes [setup + dodge]
2/3 Improved Slice and Dice
5/5 Deflection
5/5 Precision
2/2 Endurance
1/1 Riposte [patch 2.3 warriors are not 100% immune]
2/2 Improved Sprint
2/2 Improved Kick
5/5 Mace Specialization
1/1 Blade Flurry
1/1 Adrenaline Rush
Subtlety (27 points)
5/5 Master of Deception
2/2 Dirty Tricks
4/5 Camouflage
3/3 Initiative
1/1 Ghostly Strike [dodge + setup]
3/3 Setup [going for heavy dodge for more combo points vs warriors]
2/2 Elusiveness
3/3 Serrated Blades
1/1 Preparation
2/2 Dirty Deeds [very juicy talent now +20% dmg when enemy<35% health]
1/1 Hemorrhage [patch 2.3 buffed to 125% wpn dmg, still only 35 energy] |
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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Obijay
Advocate with the Iron Cat Paw
Guild Officer
Total Posts: 434
Location: Lacey, WA
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| 11/16/2007 10:30 AM |
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| Malice is a tasty cookie of a skill. I'm curious to see how this hybrid build will work. I don't think it's for me though. |
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Marethen - 41 Frost Mage (Enchant 300 //Tailor 269)
Cearwyn - 33 Paladin (Engineer 172 //Mining 119) |
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Trefalgar
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 11/16/2007 1:02 PM |
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Uhhhhhh. I was on suffering from a serious case of The Stupid when I did that talent template in my OP. I totally forgot Duel Wield. Here's my updated template:
AR/Prep Hemo Maces Rogue
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZ0xEdrVt000oZxMjoGhRo
Combat (34 points)
5/5 Lightning Reflexes
5/5 Deflection
5/5 Precision
2/2 Endurance
1/1 Riposte
2/2 Improved Sprint
2/2 Improved Kick
5/5 Dual Wield Specialization
5/5 Mace Specialization
1/1 Blade Flurry
1/1 Adrenaline Rush
Subtlety (27 points)
5/5 Master of Deception
2/2 Dirty Tricks
4/5 Camouflage
3/3 Initiative
1/1 Ghostly Strike
3/3 Setup
2/2 Elusiveness
3/3 Serrated Blades
1/1 Preparation
2/2 Dirty Deeds
1/1 Hemorrhage |
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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wscott81
Sill Pixel Challenged
Guild Member
Total Posts: 672
Location: Columbus Ohio
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| 11/17/2007 8:37 AM |
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| well All i know is I have Increased Dmg alot while still having a Mainly Sub build But yours Looks Pretty cool, Long b4 they changed hemo i had done a Slight Respec to beer :) Here Is the link incase you wanna look :) http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZ0xEz0mZebxc0Gosxsu but Other Wise you look like you can deal some good stuffs there Treffy ! :) |
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Oryx
AFK
Guild Member
Total Posts: 501
Location: Denver
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| 11/17/2007 11:37 AM |
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| Lol respec addict. Youhave no idea, Tref. ^.~ =P |
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Aquatic 70 Shaman ~ Haelo 60 Paladin
Tichelle 58 Warrior ~ Khaarma 41 Druid
Decode 55 Death Knight
The AFK Queen. |
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Wayanoru
Brownie Enthusiast
Guild Officer
Total Posts: 685
Location: CA
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| 11/17/2007 12:09 PM |
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R....Ree.....Reee...........Respe.....Respec?? What is that word?
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"I am not lost, I am exploring."
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Karosa
Guild Member
Total Posts: 219
Location: Louisville, KY
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| 11/19/2007 3:43 AM |
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| Psh, Imma stick with Mutilate...and I'm not respeccing the War or the Lock, screw that, it takes too much cash :) |
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When in doubt...hit something as hard as possible.
Shut up and Reboot. |
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Trefalgar
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 11/19/2007 12:45 PM |
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UPDATED TALENTS – TESTING & MODIFICATIONS
AR/Prep Hemo Maces Rogue
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0bZ0eVbrVt000oZxMeoGhRo
Assassination (2 points)
2/5 Malice
Combat (31 points)
5/5 Lightning Reflexes
3/3 Improved Slice and Dice
5/5 Precision
2/2 Endurance
2/2 Improved Sprint
2/2 Improved Kick
5/5 Dual Wield Specialization
5/5 Mace Specialization
1/1 Blade Flurry
1/1 Adrenaline Rush
Subtlety (28 points)
5/5 Master of Deception
2/2 Dirty Tricks
5/5 Camouflage
3/3 Initiative
1/1 Ghostly Strike
3/3 Setup
2/2 Elusiveness
3/3 Serrated Blades
1/1 Preparation
2/2 Dirty Deeds
1/1 Hemorrhage
Overall Style: AR/Prep/Hemo Patch 2.3 Flavor of the Month :-)
Modifications:
1. Dodge/Resist Combo Points.
I tested Cloak of Shadows and Setup produces lots of combo points from spell resists. Versus melee types, Ghostly Strike + Evasion + Lightning Reflexes (passive) are producing good combo points.
2. No Riposte [/sad face]
I like Riposte. It’s valuable now that warriors are not 100% immune to disarm. A 10 Energy attack is nice, BUT I found that I simply end up with WAY too many abilities to manage. This is far too complicated to manage on my quickbar with all the other abilities and finishing moves I need to be able to tap in a split-second reaction. I tried to macro a /castrandom sequence with Hemo & Riposte to catch Hemo when it’s up, but it seemed a little off … like I was missing swing opportunities when RP was not active. Dropping Riposte frees up 6 talent points and allows me full 3/3 SnD and 2/5 Malice.
3. AR/Prep/Hemo
Hemorrhage is much better now with the buff it got in Patch 2.3. It’s not quite as damaging as Sinister Strike, but it’s close enough. Only needing 35 energy, and freeing up 2 points in combat not needing Improved Sinister Strike makes it a compelling choice for the added control in PvP.
4. Malice > Deadliness
Most FotM AR/Prep/Hemo builds are 31/30. They pickup 5/5 Deadliness. That is probably the best PVE Hemo build, BUT it also requires a very high AP to maximize the effect of an AP x % style Deadliness talent. Increased Crit is better IMO for PvP. You want more burst damage anyway. Arena/BG gear tends to have much lower AP and you won’t have full raid buffs.
Other Comments:
Dirty Deeds.
Dirty Deeds is AWESOME! It used to just lower energy costs on the bread-n-butter openers Cheap Shot and Garrote. Now it also boost all special attack damage by 20% when your target is below 35% health. It works VERY nice in my testing. That is the perfect time point in rogue combat to get a buff like that. Rogues can burst someone down in health quick, but then we run out of juice usually before your target is completely dead. Dirty Deeds comes in handy right when you need it.
Managing Abilities.
This style talent template doesn’t have the positional requirements of Mutilate (which is still a very strong build). Managing all the abilities and cooldowns is the challenge. It’s hard to activate everything in the heat of the moment, so I’ve worked up some macros to help.
(Check spelling on these, I’m writing this up at work so these may not be 100% cut & paste ready)
My Abacus of Violent Odds is in my 1st Trinket slot [position 13]
Combat Adrenaline Rush rogues are about the dps speed burst. Here are two macors to automate the activation of all the abilties with just a single button mashing spam. I put /startattack in most of my macros to make sure they at least start auto-attack if I am out of energy for some reason and can’t do a special.
The arena version is special because you know all cooldowns are refreshed. You also know that hitting Preparation will reset all these except Blade Flury, which is why I put that last in the sequence. The macro will stick there the second time around but then reset a second later. Shiv starts the sequence to make sure Crippling is appplied to target and to ensure at least 1 combo point for SnD.
ARENA VERSION
/startattack
/use 13
/castsequence reset=5 Shiv,Slice N Dice, Adrenaline Rush, Blade Flury
Battleground version switches to random sequence, since you don’t know which cooldowns are available. It will just hit all the abilities with a little button mashing spam.
BATTLEGROUND VERSION
/startattack
/use 13
/castrandom Slice N Dice, Adrenaline Rush, Blade Flury
Dodge macro is for Setup and combo point generation.
DODGE MACRO
/startattack
/castsrandom Ghostly Strike, Evasion
The end result is 2 buttons in easy reach on my quickbar. 1st button is for an attack speed boost from any available sources. I would swap the macros out depending on being in the Arena or the BGs. In PVE I prefer more control and want to do it manually. 2nd button is for a dodge boost to proc more Setup combo points. |
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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Trefalgar
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 11/19/2007 12:56 PM |
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Posted By Karosa on 11/19/2007 3:43 AM
Psh, Imma stick with Mutilate...and I'm not respeccing the War or the Lock, screw that, it takes too much cash :)
Mutilate is still a very strong build. I'd argue that it is also better general-purpose because I think it's higher DPS in PVE.
I'm bored anyway, lol, so combat maces gives me something to work on saving up for gear and messing with talent templates.
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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Obijay
Advocate with the Iron Cat Paw
Guild Officer
Total Posts: 434
Location: Lacey, WA
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| 11/19/2007 2:29 PM |
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Dirty deeds also adds the fun of sapping a target from the next county over. I do miss it sometimes, as it was handy in PvE as well.
Mutilate builds are definitely good for both areas of the game. In a typical five man I can often out dps casters,and on the Saturday Gruul runs I tend to be pretty high on the damage lists as well. It's a bit tricky to get the mutilate in during an arena match, but having the additional points in poisons for the spec will allow for a nice burst envenom that can down even the biggest warriors. |
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Marethen - 41 Frost Mage (Enchant 300 //Tailor 269)
Cearwyn - 33 Paladin (Engineer 172 //Mining 119) |
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Trefalgar
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 11/19/2007 3:37 PM |
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Posted By Obijay on 11/19/2007 2:29 PM
Dirty deeds also adds the fun of sapping a target from the next county over. I do miss it sometimes, as it was handy in PvE as well.
Dirty Tricks = longer sap and blind range, reduced sap and blind energy costs.
Dirty Deeds = 20 points less energy cost for Cheap Shot and Garrote. Now adds +20% damage to all special attacks if target is at or below 35% health.
I often have to look at them both again to keep myself from confusing the names.
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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Trefalgar
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 11/19/2007 3:47 PM |
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Posted By Obijay on 11/19/2007 2:29 PM
Mutilate builds are definitely good for both areas of the game. In a typical five man I can often out dps casters,and on the Saturday Gruul runs I tend to be pretty high on the damage lists as well. It's a bit tricky to get the mutilate in during an arena match, but having the additional points in poisons for the spec will allow for a nice burst envenom that can down even the biggest warriors.
Mutilate is great too. The DPS is really good, and I think it is much more versatile than a straight Combat Daggers (i.e. Backstab spam) build.
I was always on the fence between Vile Poisons (increased poison damage + harder to dispell) or Improved Poisons (increased chance to proc poison).
The DPS increase overall from having Vile Poisons seemed to outweigh the increased DPS from more poison procs. Vile Poisons also makes Envenom attacks more valuable. I think you pretty much need to have Vile Poisons if you ever want to do Envenom finishers; otherwise, you might as well Eviscerate. |
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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Trefalgar
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 11/19/2007 3:54 PM |
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Posted By wscott81 on 11/17/2007 8:37 AM
well All i know is I have Increased Dmg alot while still having a Mainly Sub build But yours Looks Pretty cool, Long b4 they changed hemo i had done a Slight Respec to beer :) Here Is the link incase you wanna look :) http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZ0xEz0mZebxc0Gosxsu but Other Wise you look like you can deal some good stuffs there Treffy ! :)
Cheat Death is definately a much better talent now. It's now 100% chance to proc, 90% dmg reduction and 3 second duration. That's tempting!
That talent template looks like a lot of fun. I bet you get the jump on other rogues and stealthed druids! |
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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Obijay
Advocate with the Iron Cat Paw
Guild Officer
Total Posts: 434
Location: Lacey, WA
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| 11/19/2007 4:42 PM |
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Yeah Vile Poisons is the way to go. Like we were saying earlier, once you hit five procs on deadly, really not much point to more is there? It'd be handy if you favored instant poison, but I get a ton more mileage out of wound and deadly.
I did test envenom without vile poisons back when I was a combat mess. All in all, it still tended to hit harder than Eviscerate, but I figure that's do to the ignoring of armor |
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Marethen - 41 Frost Mage (Enchant 300 //Tailor 269)
Cearwyn - 33 Paladin (Engineer 172 //Mining 119) |
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