camnewyork 
Guild Initiate
Total Posts: 4
Location:
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| 05/11/2006 3:42 PM |
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Hi.... I'm not in the guild yet but will be soon. I was poking around
this web site and read over the "how to play a druid" page. That was an
interesting read to say the least. The author stated that all other druid
write-ups have it wrong and strength affects dps in cat. This is exactly
opposite of everything I have ever read. I was told that +agi is the way to go
(about 20 agi = 1 crit at level 60) and strength had little to add. I am totally
+agi +crit in my gear and enchants and have over a thousand gold invested.
I have never tried to play around with this since it was just "known"
that agi was it for DPS.... now I am intrigued but to test it would be a large
investment.
Can any other Druids tell me if they have
1) read this
2) tried it
3) liked it
thanks
Wolfkeep (level 60,
feral spec'ed, stormshroud and devilsaur for max crit)
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Kemel
Guild Leader
Total Posts: 1530
Location: Michigan
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| 05/11/2006 5:15 PM |
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I was loaded up on Agil before Molt set me straight and told me str is where our damage is based off of for the most part. Now your crit chance goes up for sure with the Agil and if that's what you're going for it's probably perfectly resonable.
Having your feral set geared up with str gear is nice for if you want to bear form tank and such. |
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Kemel - lv 70 Paladin - Jewelcrafter
Clearwood - lv 70 Druid - Alchemist
Niev - lv 70 Warlock - Enchanter/Tailor
Sundown - lv 70 Rogue
Moo! |
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Raspus
Guild Alumni
Total Posts: 22
Location: Austin, Tx
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| 05/11/2006 11:11 PM |
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You might want to get with Quondam with this, since he's our other 60 feral druid, and often neglects to read the boards 
I have heard that str does effect base damage for both cat and bear, but would + atk be more effecient, or is there a multiplier applied to str, like the armor multiplier you get in bear form? Never played a druid beyond level 4  |
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camnewyork
Guild Initiate
Total Posts: 4
Location:
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| 05/12/2006 8:58 AM |
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Thanks, I'll look him up online.
I have tried to understand the relationship between strength and agility as it relates to bear/cat. I have come to believe that it really breaks down to:
cat is a rogue
bear is a warrior
If this is the case, strength should be less important than agility and stamina for cat. I have seen formulas that show that at 60, 20 agility is +1 to crit (give or take). The more I crit the more overall damage. The problem with this is (assume I crit 25% of the time) I can not guarentee that I will crit on a finishing move.... my crits are sometimes wasted on buildup moves that do much less base damage. I could see where it might actually make sense to sacrifice %crit if I can improve my overall DPS. Maybe that is what the article was saying.
In bear, strength is more important than agility, but to me they both are less important than stamina. I don't play in bear to do gobs of damage, I play to survive longer.
I'm not sure how the other stats work for bear... I have always been confused about the odd stats like +def and such. It always seemed to come back to the basics, +str is better than +def since def is one stat and str affects multiple stats (including def if I am not mistaken)....
It would be impossible for me to switch out my current gear for anything that is of similar quality but with +str.... I don't have to gold.... I will try to experiment as I find gear.
Carl
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Drahgon
Guild Alumni
Total Posts: 442
Location: *Classified*
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| 05/12/2006 9:11 AM |
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This may be a completely worthless observation for you but I know that for warriors +str is where its at for damage. For warriors I believe 1 STR = 2 AP so...
I've always felt that while critting is nice... having a higher base damage alway seemed to up my DPS in the long haul. |
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"Major Strasse has been shot; round up the usual suspects."
Drahgon 60 Warrior - Malakye 60 Warlock |
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seeker
Swords are fun!
Council Member
Total Posts: 3236
Location: Indy, no NV, no Indy, no NV....
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| 05/12/2006 10:17 AM |
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+def: mobs are less likely to crit you  |
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Sabre (70 warrior)
Sceptre (70 warlock)
Thornkiss (70 priest)
Chibi (62 rogue)
and a slew of others, 9 - 53 |
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Molt
Registered Users
Total Posts: 397
Location: Jackson, MS
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| 05/13/2006 3:41 PM |
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1 Strength is approximately 2 attack power...no matter which feral form.
1 Agility is approximately 1 attack power in cat form only.
Agility adds to crit chance in any form (around 20pts for 1% I think).
A good mix of strength and agility is certainly nice, but I would place a higher importance on strength for better sustained damage. I most certainly wouldn't omit strength completely because you are effectively cutting your sustained dps in half. |
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Dolt - lvl 70 Enhancement Shaman
Molt - lvl 70 Restoration Druid |
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Raspus
Guild Alumni
Total Posts: 22
Location: Austin, Tx
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| 05/16/2006 12:00 AM |
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I thought this was an interesting parallel, for us oldschool gamers:
When Everquest came out, it was KNOWN that the best race for a rogue was a woodelf since they had the highest base dexterity. Dexterity meant that you had the best chance to hit with your backstabs and other special, high-damage, rogue-only attacks.
Then someone did some serious parsing and showed that, per point, stregnth increased your overall damage over any legnth of time. Sure, you could get a string of crits (that might get you killed by drawing unforgiveable aggro), but in general stregnth became the way to go, and skinny-armed woodelves fell out of favor.
It's a completely different game, of course, but it makes you think. |
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Raspus
Guild Alumni
Total Posts: 22
Location: Austin, Tx
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| 05/16/2006 12:20 AM |
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Oh, and Molt:
I'm pretty sure that str has a multiplier involved, otherwise the atk increase you get in cat form would be a set number. I played around with Quondam's druid (we share accounts a little, for the purpose of farming and stuff), swapping out gear and such, and I don't think that adding str increased atk for all forms by the same number. |
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edgefigaro
Registered Users
Total Posts: 1
Location:
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| 07/10/2006 6:52 PM |
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| A 25 point talent, Heart of the Wild, increases your strength by 20% in cat form, thus giving 2.4 attack power for every point of strenght. Alternatively, it increases your stamina by 20% in bear form an intel by 20% in caster form. |
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Dhrydan
Webmaster
Guild Officer
Total Posts: 2967
Location: Seattle, WA
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| 07/13/2006 4:56 PM |
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BTW, I was chatting with a friend of mine who is growing a baby druid, and he's going down the feral path - so I was having this discussion with him.
I did some looking around and found a thread on leveling a feral/PvP druid up on the WoW Community site.
They had pulled together the following information:
1 str = 2 AP
With HotW (in cat form) 1 str = 2.4 AP
1 AGI = 1 AP cat form only
14 AP = 1 dps
20 AGI = 1% melee crit
20AGI = 1% dodge
1AGI = 2AC
1 STA = 10 HP (w/ HotW bear = 12)
1 INT = 15 Mana (w/ HotW = 18)
Spirit mana regen = spirit/5 +15
Spell crit 59.5 int = 1%
(spell crit confirmed by Tseric in the following mage forum post: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=559324&s=blizzard&tmp=1#blizzard)
Other info
Dire Bear and Moonkin armor is calculated as 460% of items (agi bonus, armor kits, and enchants are not included in this calculation) This can be raised to 506% with 5/5 Thick Hidea
Weapon procs listed "on hit" (eg. Crusader/Fiery)do NOT proc in forms (moonkin aside). Trinkets/armor that are listed as "on hit" DO proc in forms (Maelstrom, Elementals decks).
+Atk speed enchants DO work in forms.
When looking for Feral weapons, go for those with the best stats, not necessarily the best DPS, because weapon DPS matters SQUAT when in forms. You aren't using the weapon itself, but you still get the stat bonuses.
Best Enchants:
Tanking Weapon - +25 Agi
DPS Weapon - +25 Agi
Healing - +heal
Casting - INT
Regen - spirit for mana regen
In the event you are poor like me, the Iron Counterweight (+3% attack speed) DOES work for druids in forms, and is a good alternative on weapon that doesn't deserve an end game enchant.
Best PvE Raid setup for healers = 3 weapons
Start - high int with +int enchant
Heal through your bonus int
Swap - high heal with +heal enchant
Heal til you need to regen
Swap - high spi with +spi enchant
switch back to +heal
Druid Speed( what stacks with what)
www.forgoodnotevil.com/druid/speed.html |
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Dhrydan - 70 Restor Druid
Dhrymage - 61 Arcane Mage
Dhrybetankin - 43 Warrior
Dhrybestakin - 33 Shammy
Guild Officer & Webmaster |
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