Trefalgar 
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 08/04/2006 8:36 AM |
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I've been saving my SK position for a long time to get Brutality Blade
for my rogue, and i'm pretty high up on the list now. When I get
that weapon, I will finally feel comfortable putting a serious high-end
(read high $$) enchantment on it. My weapons so far are just too
low-grade to spend that kind of resources on major enchants
(Assassination Blade is still my main hand sword, boo hoo). I
just put the typical +4 DMG or Fiery enchants on them.
So here is my question:
Crusader Enchant or +15 Agility Enchant? I plan to put +15 agility on my off-hand weapon anyway.
Crusader seems like it should boost my DPS significantly. Having 2 +15 AGI enchants would also be nice.
Any experience out there?
Is there another enchant that might be a lot better?
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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Partial
"T"rouble (Officer)
Registered Users
Total Posts: 540
Location:
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| 08/04/2006 9:03 AM |
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| LOL, talked with Jatok bout this this last nite. He runs duel Crusaders. I myself run 1 Crusader and Agi. But the plan later down the road is Crusader/Lifestealing. |
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Jormomma 61 Rogue mining/gnome engineer (300)
Partial 70 Shadowpriest tailor(Shadowcloth)/Mining
Shada 5x Hunter skinning
Guild Leader |
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Trefalgar
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 08/04/2006 9:25 AM |
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Does the crusader buff stack with itself?
So running duel crusader enchants has the possibility of generating double the listed buff if both weapons proc in the same fight?
Or does having two crusader enchants just give you double the chance of having the proc go off, but only having a single proc benefit at any given time? |
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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wscott81
Sill Pixel Challenged
Guild Member
Total Posts: 672
Location: Columbus Ohio
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| 08/05/2006 9:03 AM |
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I have Dual =15 Agi On my daggers so I like having the Higher % chance to Crit 
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seeker
Swords are fun!
Council Member
Total Posts: 3236
Location: Indy, no NV, no Indy, no NV....
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| 08/05/2006 10:27 AM |
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| Tref; if both weapons trigger crusader at the same time, you get double-buffed. Jatok went all jittery-happy one night when that happened at the last 5% of golemagg -- he shredded the poor giant. |
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Sabre (70 warrior)
Sceptre (70 warlock)
Thornkiss (70 priest)
Chibi (62 rogue)
and a slew of others, 9 - 53 |
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Jatok
Guild Alumni
Total Posts: 1141
Location: Bristol, Va
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| 08/07/2006 8:11 AM |
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| Dual Sadars FTW. They proc a ton so you are getting your heals for them along with the buff that does indeed stack. I will never run anything different on swords. Plus you get the supercool effects when it procs lol. |
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Jatok(60 Rogue), Gimlen(60 Warrior)
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Jureal
Guild Alumni
Total Posts: 2916
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
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| 08/07/2006 1:51 PM |
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strobe lights and music?!? casue that'd be pretty nifty!!  |
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Web Forum Nonsense Raiding Team - Council Member On Vacation - Pie Eater |
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Karosa
Guild Member
Total Posts: 219
Location: Louisville, KY
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| 08/12/2006 12:23 AM |
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| what about dual lifestealing? Cause if memory serves there's a timer where Crusader can't proc again (I THOUGHT at least) and Lifestealing just has a chance on hit with no max # of procs possible in a period of time. I always heard that Lifestealing was the way to go, but then again, I STILL hear how slower weapons hit better, even with the instant attack normalization...so *shrug* any input is nice |
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When in doubt...hit something as hard as possible.
Shut up and Reboot. |
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Nems
Guild Member
Total Posts: 16
Location: Las Vegas
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| 08/13/2006 5:37 PM |
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best write up ive seen so far.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=518864
it really depends on your build. my combat rogue uses +15 agil main hand and crusader on the off hand. after reading this it looks like ive shouldve went the other way but my damage output is still thru the roof.
gl
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Nems 63 Druid, Morlock 60 Warlock, Asunder 70 Warrior
Mordeous 70 Priest (350 Enchanting 373 Tailoring)
Morbeous 65 Rogue (350 Alchemy 370 Herbalism)
Majii 70 Mage (360 Engineering 375 Mining)
Morteous 60 Hunter, Wicca 49 Druid |
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Nems
Guild Member
Total Posts: 16
Location: Las Vegas
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| 08/13/2006 5:41 PM |
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hehe
oops wrong link but its still very usefull. try
http://vnboards.ign.com/wow_rogue_class/b22782/98244094/p1/79
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Nems 63 Druid, Morlock 60 Warlock, Asunder 70 Warrior
Mordeous 70 Priest (350 Enchanting 373 Tailoring)
Morbeous 65 Rogue (350 Alchemy 370 Herbalism)
Majii 70 Mage (360 Engineering 375 Mining)
Morteous 60 Hunter, Wicca 49 Druid |
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Jatok
Guild Alumni
Total Posts: 1141
Location: Bristol, Va
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| 08/14/2006 6:57 AM |
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| I checked friday night in a MC run. Since Sadar procs heal I ran DMs set to show my healing. I healed myself for over 25k during a 4 hour run. The procs stack and when i get a double proc(which happend alot) I am usually at 1500+ att pwr. I have tested it diffent ways and with a sword combat build I will never go to anything else. But in the end it all comes down to your personal prefrence. |
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Jatok(60 Rogue), Gimlen(60 Warrior)
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Trefalgar
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 08/14/2006 9:06 AM |
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I am seriously considering holding out for the Gutgore Ripper instead of Brutality Blade. I've actually enjoyed doing PvP lately on my Rogue and was thinking of going heavy Subtlety when 1.12 comes out and switching to Daggers.
Any idea how all this changes with Daggers instead of Swords?
I was going to get the Thunderwood Poker from the Perfect Poison quest. That has like +13 AGI I think, so I was going to put another +15 AGI enchant on that as my off-hand weapon.
What for Gutgore Ripper then? I was thinking maybe +15 AGI also or Lifestealing. Crusader is still a possiblity. |
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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Jatok
Guild Alumni
Total Posts: 1141
Location: Bristol, Va
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| 08/14/2006 1:14 PM |
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| Dagger build = crit = agi enchants. My view on that anyway. |
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Jatok(60 Rogue), Gimlen(60 Warrior)
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Trefalgar
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 08/14/2006 1:56 PM |
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What are good damage meters to use? There are so many. Is there a standard one they use in SLACK?
And I was also leaning towards duel +AGI if I get the Gutgore. AGI adds to every swing and isn't as proc-dependent. Since I was going higher in Subtlety with 1.12, I also worked in the talents to get combo points from dodges. So +AGI will help there too. |
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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Kalmir
Guild Member
Total Posts: 83
Location: not in the closet no more =p, Colorado
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| 09/16/2006 4:52 AM |
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also another point to keep in mind with Lifestealing is that its shadow dmg and can be resisted partially or in whole, while crusader is a proc on yourself and just makes you beafier (and a little heal never hurts =p)
i use Brutality blade (crusader) and Scarlet Kris (agi) with a hemo spec and i love it |
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Trefalgar
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 09/18/2006 10:38 AM |
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Lifestealing proc is shadow and could be resisted, BUT it is magic so there is not armor mitigation.
Crusader procs on you (so no resist), ups your DPS from +Str, BUT the damage is mitigated by opponents armor and or magic shields.
The debate rages on ... hehe. 6 of one or half-dozen of the other.
BTW I ended up putting +15 AGI on both daggers as a compromise. It boost everything I do all the time and ends up more like Crusader in that it is mitigated by armor, BUT it counts on every single swing every time w/o waiting for procs. |
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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Oryx
AFK
Guild Member
Total Posts: 501
Location: Denver
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| 09/28/2006 8:36 PM |
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I know, I'm alittle slow on my responses to posts on the forums because I'm always in game, but being I am off game for a bit I can add my 2 copper into some stuff on the forums more often. =P
I go dual Crusader for swords/maces and dual +15 Agi for daggers. I've never used lifesteal or anyother weapon enchant for my rogue.
I have heard quite often tho that Darkmoon Card:Heroism procs more then Crusader - without the +strenght self buff I might add, but does heal. I could only imagine dual Crusader + DMC: Heroism >.<
Once I can my paws on the card myself, I'll try it out n let everyone know. =)
I want to get my hands on Brutality Blade and Vis'kag myself, Tref. ::shivers:: I would be murdering hordies with that combo. RAWR! |
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Aquatic 70 Shaman ~ Haelo 60 Paladin
Tichelle 58 Warrior ~ Khaarma 41 Druid
Decode 55 Death Knight
The AFK Queen. |
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Trefalgar
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 09/29/2006 7:51 AM |
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I ended up doing +15 AGI to both daggers. I am not going to say that is the super uber-est, but I like it. I read one of those long mathematical and technical analysis papers players write comparing enchants. It looked like over a long period all enchants came pretty close with DPS, with some having a little more effectiveness than others depending on various factors.
The proc enchants like crusader, fiery and lifestealing have their various burst element to them. I think Fiery actually worked out to be the most DPS. It's just not as popular because it is totally ineffective in the two most important endgame raiding instances -- MC and BWL.
I think if I were using swords or maces, I would be more tempted to try a burst/proc enchant.
+15 AGI adds DPS, dodge, crit, AP bonuses etc. with every single swing, and even passivley when you are not attacking. I've been really happy with them using my heavy subtlety pvp talent template. With my gear, enchants and Deadliness (+10% attack power), I reach 706 AP without any buffs. |
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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avid
Guild Member
Total Posts: 4
Location:
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| 09/29/2006 2:27 PM |
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I have extensive experience as a rogue and let me be the first to say that between +15 agi and Crusader, it's really all preference. If you like seeing that phat proc every once in awhile and getting some sweet burst dps, go crusader. If you would rather have a static improvement then obviously +15 agi is the way to go. On my old main I had a Claw of the Black Drake mainhand and a CHT off hand. I had sader on the CHT and 15 agi on the Claw and my dps was great. In a long boss fight crusader procs enough to be up at least 50% of the time.
So I mean, it all just depends what you prefer. |
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Chojin
Registered Users
Total Posts: 4
Location:
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| 10/05/2006 1:05 PM |
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For Swords I recommend Crus/Agi. Dual Crusader is good too.
For Dagger +5 MH will mathamatically still do more DPS then any other MH enchant. OH +agi still comes out on top. Second best is Crusader/Agi.
LS works best for daggers and causes high threat, great for rogues since we can aggro manage ourselves.
As for Gutgore Ripper, Fang of the Faceless will do you better and it drops off Hakkar in a 20 man which is easily farmable.
Also, I can murder Jatok. Truth <3
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