Vadik 
Guild Member
Total Posts: 203
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| 12/06/2006 7:46 AM |
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I have not spent my free respec on my lvl 55 warrior yet because I'm not sure what route to go. From everything I've read so far the warriors are done being tanks, http://beta.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1441792&sid=1
It looks like Paladins and Druids are having an easy time pulling aggro off warriors since the rage mitigation was put in, Druids especially.
So where does that leave the warriors to go? DPS? they'd still end up well below the rogues and druids I think. Are warriors being reduced to offtanks or standard damage dealers? It sounds like the way rage was redone has almost completely crippled the warrior class.
Any thoughts which route will be best for BC and 60+? Full Arms and Fury spec? or stick with Fury/Prot?
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WoW is the best way to get wife aggro
Ashallar (60 Pally -Alc), Vadik (5x Warrior) -members
Aerili (5x Mage- Ench), Narisa (3x Rogue- LW), Blackfist (29 pseudo-twink)- not members yet. |
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Trefalgar
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 12/06/2006 9:36 AM |
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I don't play a warrior, so i'm not an expert on the details. However, I don't think their days of main tanking are done. I'm playing with a tanking spec on my paladin. It looks like on paper he should do ok in lower level instances dungeons. I really don't think paladins or bear-druids are going to be replacing Warriors as the premiere main tank, especially in the higher endgame instances.
Blizzard made the paladins more viable alternatives, but they really don't have the damage mitigation of a protection warrior. Nor do they have the same aggro tools. The paladin's new taunt is more complicated than the warrior's snap-aggro taunt. Paladins can pull mobs from a single target. Warriors can target the mob directly and pull them away. There's a subtle but important difference there. The paladin for one thing has to know who has the aggro. Sometimes that is simple. Often times it is confusing in a rapid reaction mode.
Another key difference between warriors and paladins is the length of time they can work aggro. Paladins need mana to generate aggro (they have to constantly cast Holy damage spells to generate it). Their rage, in a sense, is constantly going down. Sure they added some stuff to help Paladins regain mana while being healed by others, but in the long run it looks to me like a losing battle over time. Warriors are the opposite. They have unlimited rage over time. As long as they are getting wailed on by the mob, and the healers are keeping them standing, there's no end of rage in site. So for long, drawn out boss fights, I don't see Paladins cutting it. Paladins appear to finally get the chance to truly become off tanks and secondary tanks in raids. They got a big boost in mob control talents.
The differences between the warrior and paladin become even more pronounced between level 60 and 70 I believe. |
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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Vadik
Guild Member
Total Posts: 203
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| 12/06/2006 9:50 AM |
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When the rage was normalized was it applied to the Druid's bear form also or just the Warrior?
All of the threat generating abilites of the Warrior are tied to rage and if the warrior can't maintain the aggro he pretty much looses all abilities to get it back and get more rage. It sounds like a Catch-22 situation Rage->Threat and
Threat->Rage. Have there been any lvl 70 tanks in BC that have given input on this topic? There are only a few abilities spread throughout all three that assist with rage generation and one is 41 point talent that doesn't seem to do much unless you're DW or using a quick weapon. Hopefully they'll add some +rage warrior only items like they do with +healing or +spell dmg. |
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WoW is the best way to get wife aggro
Ashallar (60 Pally -Alc), Vadik (5x Warrior) -members
Aerili (5x Mage- Ench), Narisa (3x Rogue- LW), Blackfist (29 pseudo-twink)- not members yet. |
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Vadik
Guild Member
Total Posts: 203
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| 12/06/2006 12:57 PM |
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Been messing around with the tree a bit trying to find a way to make rage easier and I came up with two options both are centered around the prot talents:
Imp Bloodrage 2/2 (+6 rage extra)
Tactical Mastery 3/3
Anticipation 5/5 (+20 def)
Shield Spec 5/5 (+1 rage per block)
Last Stand 1/1
Imp Shield Block 1/1 (adds one additional block for another +1 rage from spec)
Defiance 3/3 (+15% threat)
Imp Sunder Armor 3/3 (-3 rage cost)
Concussion Blow 1/1
Imp Shield Bash 1/2 (+50% chance to silence didn't take 2/2 because some mobs when I'm tanking would be immune to this most likely)
Imp Shield Wall 2/2 (+5 seconds)
Shield Mastery 3/3 (-30% less damage when blocking)
Shield Slam 1/1
Focused Rage 3/3 (-3 rage cost to all offensive)
Option #1
Imp Heroic Strike 3/3 (-3 rage cost)
Deflection 4/5 (4% chance to parry)
Imp Rend 3/3
Imp Overpower 2/2
Anger Management 1/1 (+1 rage/3sec)
Deep Wounds 3/3
Impale 1/2
Option #2
Imp HS 3/3
Deflection 2/5
Imp Charge 2/2 (+6 extra rage)
Cruelty 5/5
Unbridled Wrath 5/5 (+40% chance to gain 1 rage on successful melee)
Option 1 gives me HS and Sunder at 9 rage a piece and overpower and revenge at 2 rage.
Is charge that useful when tanking? Its only useable once per battle...
I think Anger Management is better than Unbridled due to the chance of miss/dodge/parry.
Overall, even if rage generation has been trimmed down this build seems to generate a huge amount of rage just from talents while lowering the cost of the main attacks.
Any thoughts on my comments or choices? What build are Gimlen and the other MT's going with? |
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WoW is the best way to get wife aggro
Ashallar (60 Pally -Alc), Vadik (5x Warrior) -members
Aerili (5x Mage- Ench), Narisa (3x Rogue- LW), Blackfist (29 pseudo-twink)- not members yet. |
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Jatok
Guild Alumni
Total Posts: 1141
Location: Bristol, Va
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| 12/06/2006 1:54 PM |
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Ok Ok yeah druids and paladins can hold decent agro in TBC instances but you foget one thing that a warriors has that they do not. Easy way to min the damage they are taking. I tanked the first 4 instances in TBC with Gimlen wit th e new rage rules and once you get a handle on grabbing initial ago on 4 mobs at once i would still stick with the warrior for tanking. The hardest thing to find in TBC were tanking warriors which leads to the feedback alot of people have seen. To many warriors in TBC beta wanted to be rogues in plate and hell they could not tank.
Specing your warriors depends on how you are going to play it.
Gimlen is currently 5/0/Rest and that is my play style on him
Rage generation was changed but remember when they normalized weapons and Rogues said it was the end of the class?
Read everything you can rem 10% of it and then go play the why you want to play and end the end there is not alot of difference. |
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Jatok(60 Rogue), Gimlen(60 Warrior)
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Karosa
Guild Member
Total Posts: 219
Location: Louisville, KY
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| 12/06/2006 6:59 PM |
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Well, everyone has a different play style. I heard wonderful things about fury...but I hated it on my warrior. I know that warriors are wonderful tanks, but that was NEVER me. I'm an Arms warrior for a reason, I like doing massive burst damage and shredding an enemy with a few critical hits, followed by an execute. As such, I love the new arms talents  Go for whatever your style is. |
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When in doubt...hit something as hard as possible.
Shut up and Reboot. |
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Else
Guild Alumni
Total Posts: 50
Location:
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| 12/07/2006 4:01 PM |
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| I went pure protection after the patch. I didn't even pick up anything from arms or fury, which I did when I speced protection before the patch. |
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Garrok
Guild Alumni
Total Posts: 314
Location: Brandon,Ms
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| 12/07/2006 5:14 PM |
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Does anyone know what the cost is to respec after the free respec. Not sure on what i should do with the freebe.
I want to make sure of which way i want to go and not have to respec and spend gold on that when i could use the gold for something else. Or should i just shut-up and play? |
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