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Subject: Healers: MP5, Spirit, FSR, and You... And More!
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Dhrydan User is Offline
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02/19/2008 3:02 PM  
To be honest - this scares me.

What do they plan to do to the game to require this change?

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02/19/2008 3:02 PM  
woot - page 3 ;)

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02/19/2008 8:24 PM  
Oooh page 3 goodness. Well I did a normal Magister's Terrace run with Way last night on Enshalaa on the PTR and she would only go oom if I severely over-used Prayer of Healing and spamming shields on everyone - which was what I was doing being it was all a new experience for me, and the shadow priest in my group had an apparent death wish. Enshalaa actually has less regen then my druid, so I will need to do some testing with Io to see how she fares. So far with Io and Enshalaa I can solo mobs casting spells non-stop and only use about 10-20% of a mana bar, barely having to drink after they die. And now being able to itemize from the new badge rewards with full on Stam/Spirit/Intellect heavy items will be even crazier. Rawr!

I like the change. It will make classes that don't rely on spirit or mp5 have less mana issues because they can stack a little spirit and then stack tons of intellect to make up the difference, thus boosting their regen. Mages, Shamans etc rejoice! I wish I had a high level shaman to test this with - I might pop Aquatic over to PTR just too see if it makes any difference in her regen. From what I am understanding, this really was more of a boost to intellect with synergy between spirit/intellect.

I'm actually going to be able to get rid of the Primal Mooncloth set now. O.o
Well....except the belt.

Basically what this change did was put an average Khara-level healer's regen on the levels of someone in Tier 5+. Tier 6 people are saying they are hitting 1k regen, and higher. Which is almost obscene! Who needs to drink with 500 mana ticks every 2 seconds!? o.O




Oryx - 70 Rogue ~ Aero - 63 Hunter


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02/20/2008 2:05 PM  
Sounds to me like a massive end of content cycle buff to push more players through the existing content before WotLK is released. They did something similar with the talents and spells shortly before TBC was released. This looks more pronounced than the last one.

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02/20/2008 3:44 PM  
I'm still trying to figure out the theorycraft behind this mana regen stuff - but even the 'chart of blue bands' only confused me more than it helped.

But devs never give away something for free...they're holding something back...I know it...

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02/21/2008 11:59 AM  
I wouldn't be surprised if they nerfed it. People are getting 6k regen from innervates. If they have 12k mana that's 2 ticks of an innervate and they are full. It's a nice buff for people not wearing tier 6 with +10 spirit gems in every socket, but those people who are geared like that had disgusting regen to begin with.





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02/21/2008 5:18 PM  
This is such good news. It certainly would be nice to be able to heal now and again and not make the raid wait after every pull so I can drink. Shadow priests use a ton more mana when healing than while in shadow form. I cant wait to try it out! Shadowy Goodness heals Kara...WOOT! (stop laughing at me already)

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02/21/2008 8:12 PM  
Nobody's laughing at you. Besides, how would you know I'm laughing - I'm on mute!




Oryx - 70 Rogue ~ Aero - 63 Hunter


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02/22/2008 1:21 PM  
I spent yesterday tweaking Enshalaa on the PTR with different speccs and gear, just to get a feel for this change. It seems if you have 380-400+ spirit AND intellect you are going to be seeing close to 500+ regen, but if you have less then 350 spirit but 400+ intellect you will be in the low 400-450 range. Both of these number sets seem to give the same amount of mp5, about 200, give or take. So from what I have been messing around with, I think everyone could potentially be hitting 200 mp5 easily. That will probably be the "standard" for most healing classes.

I will be doing some tests today with different ranks of spells for some theory crafting.




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02/22/2008 3:16 PM  
Also here is an update for the talent section of this thread with some things I didn't cover the first go-round. Items that are updated will be in bold.


**Priest Healing Talents**

I don't have extensive experience as shadow, so I won't even talk about the shadow tree. I am going to be showing how some of the talents in the disc and holy trees are pretty useless, as well as what talents you should plan out in order to maximize your healing. I will also include builds for certain play styles.

I am writing this guide in consideration of people who have been playing healing classes, mainly the priest class.

Discipline:
This tree is basically for support, dps, mana cost reduction, and defense. Thsi si the tree that Blizzard didn't know what to do, so they just tossed a bunch of stuff into it. After the priest revisions, it became more focused on dps towards the bottom of the tree, and more support/self buffing in the top tiers. This tree, in most priest opinions, is the PvP tree.

Unlike Paladins, Shamans, and Druids, Priests do not have ONE single tree that has every viable talent for healing in it. In order to be competitive, priests have to put at minimal 13 points into the Discipline tree to pick up Meditation. And a good majority of raiding guilds require at least one priest to be 23/28/0 for the Imp. DS buff.

Unbreakable Will - Putting 5 points into this is good for PvP. It's bad for PvE. If you resist a bosses fear/stun, and you are the only one that did resist - you're going to get squashed. As I've said before - a dead priest can't heal. This talent was tweaked with the change to fear/stun/incapacitate mob mechanics. Mobs will no longer automatically aggro on you if you resist their fears/stuns etc.

Silent Resolve - Putting 3-5 points into this is ideal for filler. Now increases the chance for you to resist dispel effects.

Imp. Fortitude - If you don't have Imp Fort while raiding, be sure to tell the other healers.

Martyrdom - This can be good filler as well. Sometimes it is hard to notice the procc. Do not take this along with Blessed Recovery and vice versa. They do not stack.

Imp. PW:S - Power Word: Shield now receives bonus damage absorption based on your bonus healing. More viable now.

Meditation - Probably the most important talent in the discipline tree. Allows 30% of your spirit regen to work while you are casting.

Inner Focus - Mana free casts, with increased crit chance on a 3 minute cool down anyone? If you are 23/38/0 or 20+/30+ with points in Holy Concentration, use Inner Focus when you get clear cast proccs to cast 2 max rank G. Heals back to back for free, allowing a considerable amount of time OO5SR.

Absolution - Absolution is good if you plan on doing a lot of dispelling for PvP, or if you do a lot of dispelling for certain encounters.

Divine Spirit and Improved Divine Spirit - Always take Imp. DS if you are going for DS. The loss of healing talents in the holy tree is made up for by the gain of bonus heal from more of your spirit from Imp. DS.

Improved Inner Fire - Pretty useless for PvE, ok for PvP. I believe it gives you 500 extra armor. All (3/3) or nothing, or use as filler. This is useless for PvE. Priests wear cloth. It doesn't matter if you have 4k armor. You are going to get smashed. *spleckh*

Mental Strength - One of the most overrated talents that a healing priest could pick up.  Mental strength is worth about 2-4 extra casts - if that. I used to be a mental strength junky while leveling to 60. I know that having a big mana pool seems to be a good thing to have, and for certain situations (short, intense fights i.e. spamming) it is good. But with research and trying out different things in game, I learned that 5 points into increasing your maximum mana by 10% really isn't worth it for healing. No regen with mental strength will just mean you go oom 10% less quickly. Congratulations.
This does not increase your intellect by 10%. It increases your MAXIMUM MANA by 10%. That is usually about 1000-1500 mana. Max rank G.Heal = 700+ mana. Max rank Flash Heal = 500+ mana. You gain enough mana for about 2-3 casts. You get more mana from Arcane Intellect or a flask then from having to spend 5 points in this talent.

To quote Robble on the priest forums
"Mental Strength is not worth the 5 points unless you're going deeper than that in Discipline. Stop pretending your 13k mana pool makes you a good healer."

Putting points into anything under Divine Spirit and attempting to heal is pretty absurd. If you are wanting to be a holy dps priest, then by all means, go 40+ Disc and get dps gear and dps your heart out. But don't put points into talents you never use while healing.

Talents Below DS: The Filler/DPS Stuff
It was apparent that Blizzard didn't know what to really do with this tree. The tree is filled with mostly dps/pvp/support talents, and the "filler" becomes more apparent past Divine Spirit.

Power Infusion - This spell is being changed in patch 2.4 to be basically a targeted haste buff. People are pretty peeved. Requires 5 points in Mental Strength.

Focused Will - Getting nerfed down to 3% decreased damage taken in 2.4. Good for PvP.

Reflective Shield - This also receives more damage/absorption based on your bonus healing. Great for PvP.

Enlightenment - This talent sucks a lot of people in. It seems pretty nice when you first look at it. It increases three of a priest's main stats: Stamina, Intellect, and Spirit.
5/5 of this nets you about 10% increases to your total Stamina, Intellect, and Spirit.
That is about, give or take, 100 more hp, all depending on how much of each stat you actually have. 100 more hp - in any form, be it a talent, or an enchant is not going to save you if something is attacking you in an instance. A lot of priests are having pretty heated debates about this talent, and if it is actually worth putting over 40 points into the Disc tree, thus losing out on so many good healing talents in the holy tree.
This does increase through buffs.

I've specced into this for 24 hours, got sick of feeling so wimpy and specced back to my normal 20/41/0. 40/21/0 gains more regen then any other build, specifically if you have DS and Spirit of Redemption. But what it loses in healing endurance is not made up for by that little extra regen and 100hp. This build will have over 600 regen once 2.4 hits - even in Dungeon Set 3 - but the loss of talents like Spiritual Guidance and Spiritual Healing does not make it viable for someone wanting to seriously heal in raids due to just having wimpy heals and less endurance overall. You can't seriously down rank spells with a full-on disc build.

Pain Suppression - Again, another hotly debated talent for priests. Some people are raiding as 41+ disc and seeing content. Others are being laughed out of the raid.
This is another very good PvP talent.


Holy:
The bread and butter for healing.

Improved Renew
- If you don't put points into this, you will be getting a lot of error messages with another priest in the group that has it. "A more powerful spell is already active." - Post 2.2 all hots stack, no matter their "strength" from talents.

Healing Focus - Sometimes I honestly don't think this works. I seem to get spell push back the same amount as I would even without taking this talent, but I guess I will trust in Blizzard.

Holy Specialization - Definitely take this if you are going to dps, but I take it for the increased crit for my healing spells as well and as filler.

Spell warding -
Great for pvp, but really isn't useful for PvE because you will usually get 1-2 shotted by any and everything anyways. I have started to put 3 points as filler into this instead of  Holy Specialization. Still get one shot.

Divine Fury - Decreases cast times for a bunch of stuff. Take it.

Blessed Recovery - This talent is worthless. It heals you for about 100 points of damage every couple of seconds, which if you are taking damage still - isn't going to save you. This won't proc if you have a martyrdom proc up, and vice versa. This is not going to save you from being squashed like a bug.

Inspiration
: This is a waste of points unless you max it out. Great for main tank healing, it increases their armor by 25% at max rank when you have a heal crit them. That is awesome. Proccs off all heals - including aoe heals, CoH, PoM, PoH, etc.

Holy Nova - Fun, but mana extensive. It has it's uses - which is mainly reduced to PvP. If you want to waste 500+ mana per cast for about 300 healing to anyone actually in range of you, be my guest.

Imp. Healing -
Decreasing the mana cost of your heals is a good thing.

Searing Light - Again, if you are going to be dpsing, this is great. But if you are only focusing on healing, don't waste your time. This goes well for a healing/farming/leveling build when you don't want to have to respecc to be able to do some damage.

Holy Reach - This talent is good for pvp when your group is really spread out, and increases the range of your offensive spells as well. Has it's uses for pve as well. This talent also increases the radius of Holy Nova and more importantly, Circle of Healing. This is more useful if you're in SSC and Hyjal where the increased radius is needed due to the groups being so spread out, but taking AoE damage.

Spirit of Redemption - That 5% extra spirit is nice.

Spiritual Guidance: This works well if you have Divine spirit, and Spiritual healing.

Healing Prayers - I would take this talent from lvl 60 - 69 leveling. Prayer of Healing is a main stay in the lower level BC instances. This reduces the mana cost of Prayer of Mending by 10/20% for 2 points. I usually stick one point in this because I tend to spam PoM on the tanks as soon as it hops around the melee.
This synergizes well with Mental Agility.

Surge of Light - Good for Dps/smite/farming builds.Lolsmiterz.

Spiritual Healing - Don't put any points into this unless you are going to max it out. Increases the amount healed by your healing spells by 10%. Yum.

Lolwell (Lightwell) - Wasting a point on a HoT that only has 5 charges and breaks on damage would be silly. Don't waste your time. Great for arenas though! I would rather put a filler point into Healing Prayers then this for non-pvp healing.

Holy Concentration -  I can't explain how awesome this  talent is. Free casts are great. Sometimes it procs at the wrong time, but hey, ya win some ya lose some.
Good for max rank greater heals and Inner Focus.

Blessed Resilience - This spell is awesome for a pvp/arena healing priest. It probably won't save you if you are hit in pve. Don't really think much is going to save you if you are being hit...

Empowered Healing - Even putting just a couple points into this can make a difference. It increases the amount your heals receive from your bonus healing from items. At max rank, your greater heal will gain 100% of your bonus healing, which means you can down rank it easily.
 
Circle of Healing - This talent is the top tier holy talent. A lot of people dislike it, but I have found it has it's uses. Being able to top off both of your groups in Kara can come in handy. It also can be a bit addicting spamming this when your groups are taking heavy damage. Can be a tad mana costly.


Talent Builds

Enshalaa's Build
This is a Circle of Mending Holy build with emphasis on regen, clearcasting procs, increased healing, and mana conservation.

Farming Healing Hybrid 1
Mana regen and conservation, increased healing, improved divine spirit and free smites, oh my.

PvP Survival
Maximum survivability while maintaining healing.

Lolsmite
Some healing, but more offensive - free smites, increased damage, Imp. DS.
This was my leveling build, and the build I main healed pre-70 instances with as well.

Disc DPS
This is a raw Holy DPS build with minimal healing talents.

PvP Healer
Big heals, survivability and minimum mana reduction/aggro reduction. This is for someone who does nothing BUT PvP.


I know there are tons of viable builds and different ways of applying your talent points, but I have included builds that are pretty common. These builds maximize what they are for: Healing, DPS, survival or a little of all three.

I am currently 23/38/0 Imp. DS, Holy Concentration.




Oryx - 70 Rogue ~ Aero - 63 Hunter


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02/22/2008 3:32 PM  
Great priest info! Hi my name is Treff, and I approve of this message... :-)



I'm changing Treff over to this talent template this weekend. I do a little pvp healing on him, thus the pvp-centric talents. I plan to try out Circle of Healing because it is insta-cast and like you said, you can group heal an outside group. Prayer of Healing only affects your own group.

Holy PvP Priest
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bxRMuhhZfEt0c0oVhNo

Discipline (20 points)
5/5 Unbreakable Will
1/5 Silent Resolve
2/2 Improved Power Word: Fortitude
2/2 Martyrdom
3/3 Absolution
1/1 Inner Focus
3/3 Meditation
3/5 Mental Agility

Holy (41 points)
2/2 Healing Focus
3/3 Improved Renew
5/5 Holy Specialization
5/5 Spell Warding
5/5 Divine Fury
1/1 Holy Nova
3/3 Improved Healing
1/1 Spirit of Redemption
5/5 Spiritual Healing
3/3 Holy Concentration
3/3 Blessed Resilience
4/5 Empowered Healing
1/1 Circle of Healing

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02/22/2008 4:12 PM  
Gear Check: Itemization as a Healing Priest

    Healing priests focus on several different stats when considering items:

                   Stamina, Intellect, Spirit, mp5,  and Bonus Healing.

My order of preference; currently - Healing<Come 2.4: Healing<
    Pre 2.4 every viable healing specced priest stacked nothing but spirit and mp5 and bonus healing. Most pre-and-mid-Kara raiding priests are wearing PMC (Primal Mooncloth) and Whitemend sets, mostly socketed with royal Nightseyes (+9heal & +2mp5). This is my setup.

Primal Mooncloth Set
    I can't say that every priest should totally drop a profession to pick up tailoring just to make this set. It has lower stats then a lot of Kara drops. But what it lacks in Stamina and stats in general, it makes up with huge amounts of +heal, mp5 and that lovely set bonus of 5% extra regen while casting. I can say that the belt is the best healing belt pre-BT next to Cincture of Will and Belt of the Long Road.

    As we've begun to weave our way through the labyrinth of Karazhan, I have made several observations. One: That you don't always need 3 healers (Specifically when one, *cough me cough* keeps falling over and dying), and two: Sometimes you need to stack stamina. The PMC set and Whitemend give me far stronger heals, but I can barely take a hit. It is about time to put that stuff in the bank.

    The more content I see, and with the new 2.4 Badge Rewards, the more I realize that my precious PMC set is eventually going to be sitting in the bank, collecting dust anyways.

    I have been pyroblasted by Aran the past 3 times we've downed him. And personally, I'm getting pretty sick of it. But then again, I have no idea if I will even be able to survive it even if I do start stacking stamina.

                        The bottom line is this: Dead healers don't heal.

    With the spirit synergy with intellect coming in 2.4. Mp5 is going to be far less important then spirit. Basically all of the items you will be wanting to snag are items with heavy intellect, spirit, and stamina and possibly sockets, and if they have some mp5 on them it is even more bonus. But a pure mp5/int item will be worth less then the spirit/int one.

Tier 4 is going to be more desirable for just that: spirit/int/stamina and some mp5.

Healing is going to begin to simplify to: Can you conserve your mana, keep people alive, and not draw aggro or get killed yourself? Of course, that is the true root basis of healing anyways! ^.~ Come 2.4 there is going to be less emphasis on "5SR juggling" to conserve mana because everyone is going to be on the same level, as far as mp5 goes, giving everyone "room to breath" to get different stats.



    




Oryx - 70 Rogue ~ Aero - 63 Hunter


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02/22/2008 4:18 PM  
Treff: That is the exact specc I was using for Enshalaa before I swapped her to 23/38/0 this morning, save the point in holy nova. I dislike PvPing on both of my healers now because I feel like I am just some sort of sick little crunchy snack for anything DPS based, so I try to stay out of BGs now. I really liked CoH. It lends a different perspective on healing and gives a priest some viability at being the "raid healer" in a raid group. Although I am really in love with my shaman and can't wait till I get her to 70. Shamans are very, very fun for healing a group. Again - completely different perspective for healing. =)




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02/22/2008 4:22 PM  
And it seems part of my previous post was eaten:

My stat preferences now from first to last: Healing>mp5>Spirit>Stamina>Intellect
My stat preference once 2.4 is released, first to last: Healing>Spirit>Stamina>intellect>mp5




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02/22/2008 4:37 PM  
I forgot to add these in too =(


Cookie Cutter Priest Builds:
23/38/0 Improved Divine Spirit
20/41/0 Circle of Healing




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02/22/2008 4:57 PM  
Posted By Oryx on 02/22/2008 4:12 PM

...
    As we've begun to weave our way through the labyrinth of Karazhan, I have made several observations. One: That you don't always need 3 healers (Specifically when one, *cough me cough* keeps falling over and dying), and two: Sometimes you need to stack stamina. The PMC set and Whitemend give me far stronger heals, but I can barely take a hit. It is about time to put that stuff in the bank.
...
/nods emphatically.  I took Thornkiss to Kara last night.  I was the 3rd healer (Temun and Dhry were the others).  On bosses, I had a heal-reason to be there (especially Mr Prince).  On the trash?  gogo holy-spec priest -- bring out SW:P and holy fire!

/also learned that i need to downrank my G-heals.  yeah, the big #s were nice. But except for Phase 2 of Mr prince, i didn't need those kind of #s.

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02/22/2008 6:42 PM  
Ya know I have actually down ranked to rank 3Greater Heal, and I am getting ready to bump it down to rank 1. I was doing some testing (finally after the test server being down) and my max rank flash heal does 200 less healing then rank 1 greater heal, but costs 154 more mana. I can spam greater heal 1 over 63 times before I go oom on test, but can only do 24 flash heals and 19 rank 7 greater heals. Lawlz. Pretty crazy.




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05/09/2008 2:05 PM  
Grid, Clique, Xperl and Macros

I am going to recover add-ons for healers, as well as tossing some pretty great macros into this thread now.

The mods I am going to be talking about can be found on www.curse.com or www.wowinterface.com

Grid - Grid is a replacement for the default raid frames. Grid is configurable, and allows you to change the way it looks/size/color/theme etc. It shows each player in your party/raid as a small rectangular box. I recommend changing the opacity of the background and border to 0, as well as changing the spacing to 1.

Grid works well with Clique and mouse-over macros. I recommend getting all of the addons for Grid as well, because it is pretty vanilla without them. Grid will take some time to get used to, because it uses little indicators for different effects/actions/etc on each player's Grid box. When you first install Grid, you should reconfigure what each indicator stands for. You should have the aggro indicator, healing reduced/mortal strike indicators enabled for separate areas of each frame, so you can react quickly when someone pulls aggro or is under the effects of mortal strike.

Grid Auto Frame Size seems to be a bit buggy, so I would recommend not downloading it.

Clique - Clique is a mod that enables you to set keybindings/mouseclicks to cast spells or any other option for you. The only issue I have with clique is that once you assign mouse clicks to cast spells, you will need to reassign your normal mouse functions to other mouse/key combinations. I.e - Right click is bound to Greater Heal; this causes you to not be able to use the right click menu on normal frames, so you have to rebind the right click menu to say, Shift+Right Click.

Instead of binding all of my spells to Clique, I now only bind any quick reactive spell I need, such as dispel/remove poison/disease etc and Binding Heal. I use Shift as the modifiers for both of these. Examples: Dispel is Shift+Middle Mouse Button, and Binding Heal is Shift+Left Mouse Button.

You may have to memorize what bindings you set, so I recommend practicing a bit. =)

Xperl Raid Monitor - Xperl Unit Frames has a mod that you can enable to allow you to see all casters in the raid. It shows all the casters and their targets, along with cast bars under their names. This helps a lot if you are a tank or a healer, because you can see incoming casts on yourself or your target.

Macros

Mouse over macros allow you to simply place your mouse over someone in the game field or on a frame a heal them via a hot key.

#showtooltip Circle of Healing
/cast [target=mouseover,exists][target=target,exists][target=player] Circle of Healing

What this macro does is allows you to not target a player, but just place your mouse over their frame on Grid or in the raid frames, and click the hotkey bound to whatever heal you are using, or it heals your actual targeted target. If you have no one targeted or moused over - it heals yourself.

You can use this macro for every healing spell you use. Just change the spell name after "#showtooltip" and at the end of the macro. If you do not emphasize an actual rank to use, the macro will use your max rank spell. I recommend for priests to use Rank 3 and Rank 5 Greater Heals, and making a macro for both and key binding both on your hot bar. Also, when you change the rank you will type the spell name like this:

Greater Heal(Rank 3) - without a space between "Heal" and (Rank 3). Otherwise it will not work.


Stopcasting Macro: 

/stopcasting  - simple as that.
Bind it to an easily accessible key such as V or Q if you do not use Q to turn/strafe much. This macro forces you to cancel your spell cast without moving or jumping. Sometimes latency will cause the spell to go off if you press the macro too late.


More to come! =)




Oryx - 70 Rogue ~ Aero - 63 Hunter


The AFK Queen.
seeker User is Offline
Swords are fun!
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Location: Indy, no NV, no Indy, no NV....

05/09/2008 7:46 PM  
Re: grid. I love the "GridIndicatorSideIcons" and "GridStatusHots" addons -- more little colored boxes, including one that shows me if a renew is ticking on someone!

Sabre (70 warrior)
Sceptre (70 warlock)
Thornkiss (70 priest)
Chibi (62 rogue)
and a slew of others, 9 - 53
Trefalgar User is Offline
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05/12/2008 10:12 AM  
I've played with Grid recently. It looks powerful, but it is also powerfully complex to set up.

Thanks for the tips!

-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense
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