Trefalgar 
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 05/16/2007 5:52 PM |
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Can you coax your mind from its wandering
and keep to the original oneness?
Can you let your body become
supple as a newborn child's?
Can you cleanse your inner vision
until you see nothing but the light?
Can you love people and lead them
without imposing your will?
Can you deal with the most vital matters
by letting events take their course?
Can you step back from you own mind
and thus understand all things?
Giving birth and nourishing,
having without possessing,
acting with no expectations,
leading and not trying to control:
this is the supreme virtue.
-Lau Tzu
... /discuss |
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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Dhrydan
Webmaster
Guild Officer
Total Posts: 2971
Location: Seattle, WA
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| 05/16/2007 7:05 PM |
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| One of my favorite books. |
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Dhrydan - 70 Restor Druid
Dhrymage - 61 Arcane Mage
Dhrybetankin - 43 Warrior
Dhrybestakin - 33 Shammy
Guild Officer & Webmaster |
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Garrok
Guild Alumni
Total Posts: 314
Location: Brandon,Ms
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| 05/16/2007 10:40 PM |
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I can do none of those sadly.....
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but i did save a bunch of money by switching to GEICO.... |
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Trefalgar
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 05/17/2007 8:28 AM |
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I thought I would post something interesting to discuss that got into what people really think. It breaks down the walls people put up in an online environment.
I'll make a comment on the concept of leading without controlling. Do we have leaders these days anymore that attempt to lead without controlling? It seems there is such a huge push to control everyone and everything. There are laws to define laws. There is monitoring to alert of any potential danger or disruption. It doesn't really seem to work. Things just squish out between our fingers as we grip harder and harder.
Perhaps I am a hopeless romantic, but it would be great to go in a different direction. Is it too late to do something different? I don't know.
I have a brother-in-law who really works hard to get into politics. I'm such a cynic, but I try to be supportive. He is such an idealist. The whole power structure in our society seems to chase out or discourage people who might be excellent leaders, but who want really nothing out of it. It seems to embrace those who will accumulate power and control for their own gain and the gain of their friends.
It used to frustrate me more, but I just sort of let it go and take care of what I can influence in my direct sphere of existence. I can be decent to those around me -- family, friends, people I meet. I can't solve the world. I used to want to try. I don't think I gave up on that, but instead see it in from a different long-term view. |
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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Rikuu
Advocate
Guild Member
Total Posts: 333
Location: Lindenhurst, Illinois
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| 05/17/2007 11:16 AM |
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| ummmmm uhhhhh *blank stare while drooling* what? |
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I am Prince Rikuu
The Son of Jeidynzon
Little Brother of Blueneph
The Nephew of Saphyreblade and Shadowstride
The Geat and Almighty descendant of Puga
70 Hunter -Rikuu- Wipe apprentice
56 (growing) Druid -Troa- {Healy and ready to mistarget}
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Garrok
Guild Alumni
Total Posts: 314
Location: Brandon,Ms
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| 05/17/2007 11:40 AM |
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Isn't that basically how politics works.
Make alot of promises to make things better in order to get elected and "work" for the people.
Once in office it is my opinion that the "poles" reverse and it becomes, now that im elected what can you do
for me before i follow through on what i said i would do for you.
Each politician has his/her own agenda on how they can make things better, the hard part is getting the elected official to follow through on those promises.
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Obijay
Advocate with the Iron Cat Paw
Guild Officer
Total Posts: 434
Location: Lacey, WA
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| 05/17/2007 11:59 AM |
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Ooooh deep philosophical discussion. I love this stuff. I really should pick up this book sometime. I just recently got through the Art of War, which is of course the complete polar opposite. Anyway, the one that stands out the most to me is "Can you love people and lead them without imposing your will?". The natural answer for most people is "Of course I can. I'm a good person and I would never push myself or my beliefs onto others." The problem lies in the basic human nature though. There are always exceptions, but Lord Acton said it best "Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely".
Like Garrok said, Joe B Politician will run that campaign for the little guy, do this that and the other thing for the people, and the big favorite for the National elections "I will clean up Washington!" You know, maybe at some point they actually believed that, even believed that if they won, once they were settled into position they would live up to all those promises and would become a leader for all of history. Then the lobbyists start appearing. Special interest groups pop up like gophers, offering a few bucks to the next campaign if he/she will ease up on that emissions bill. Suddenly it's not about the promises to the people, it's keeping all the parasites just happy enough to leave you alone.
This isn't just in politics though. Just about anything with a tiering/class system is subject to it. It can be a game, a job, a team, whatever. Some people just feel that need to progress higher in the chain. I'm a simple guy. I have a roof over my head, a steady paycheck, and great friends. Sometimes I think being in an IT position is perfect for me because I'm not trying to get that next promotion and corner office. I'm content being the tech guy hanging out in the A/C filled server room, fixing what needs to be fixed, deleting what needs to be deleted, while I watch the project folks overwork themselves to death, subtly backstabbing their coworkers trying to squeeze out a bit more on that next paycheck, maybe even get the vaunted "Project Manager" title so they can stick it on their little business cards I print out for them. They won't let me have Cake Connoisseur on mine  . |
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Marethen - 41 Frost Mage (Enchant 300 //Tailor 269)
Cearwyn - 33 Paladin (Engineer 172 //Mining 119) |
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Trefalgar
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 05/17/2007 2:49 PM |
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Posted By Obijay on 05/17/2007 11:59 AM
I'm a simple guy. I have a roof over my head, a steady paycheck, and great friends.
If you realize that you have enough, you are truly rich.
[Tao Te Ching 33]
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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Trefalgar
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 05/17/2007 2:51 PM |
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The more things change, the more they stay the same. I'm so amused this guy wrote this 2,600 years or so ago:
When rich speculators prosper
While farmers lose their land;
when government officials spend money
on weapons instead of cures;
when the upper class is extravagant and irresponsible
while the poor have nowhere to turn-
all this is robbery and chaos.
-Tao Te Ching 53
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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Dhrydan
Webmaster
Guild Officer
Total Posts: 2971
Location: Seattle, WA
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| 05/17/2007 4:45 PM |
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If you realize that you have enough, you are truly rich.
[Tao Te Ching 33]
I thought that was always 'When you know when enough is enough, you will always have enough' - I'll have to look at the translations I have. BTW - who's book do you have, Tref? |
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Dhrydan - 70 Restor Druid
Dhrymage - 61 Arcane Mage
Dhrybetankin - 43 Warrior
Dhrybestakin - 33 Shammy
Guild Officer & Webmaster |
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Garrok
Guild Alumni
Total Posts: 314
Location: Brandon,Ms
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| 05/17/2007 7:17 PM |
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Not to change the subject but can someone tell me what book Forrest Whitaker was reading in the movie
Ghost Dog?
I really like the Chinese Philosophy (spell check on isle 4) and would like to get a copy if it still exists.
Thanks a bunch.
/bows |
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Trefalgar
Pie Paragon
Council Member
Total Posts: 4160
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| 05/18/2007 7:51 AM |
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Posted By Dhrydan on 05/17/2007 4:45 PM If you realize that you have enough, you are truly rich.
[Tao Te Ching 33] I thought that was always 'When you know when enough is enough, you will always have enough' - I'll have to look at the translations I have. BTW - who's book do you have, Tref?
Translation is more of an art than a science, especially when it comes to ... well art and poetry. hehe.
I've been glancing at this translation on teh intarweb:
http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/taote-v3.html |
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-Special Agent Trefal, CHU (Counter Horde Unit), Rogue Ops
-Lord Marshall of Forum Nonsense |
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Rikuu
Advocate
Guild Member
Total Posts: 333
Location: Lindenhurst, Illinois
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| 05/18/2007 10:48 AM |
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| Too much intellegence for a poor hunter to handle *head explodes* |
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I am Prince Rikuu
The Son of Jeidynzon
Little Brother of Blueneph
The Nephew of Saphyreblade and Shadowstride
The Geat and Almighty descendant of Puga
70 Hunter -Rikuu- Wipe apprentice
56 (growing) Druid -Troa- {Healy and ready to mistarget}
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Obijay
Advocate with the Iron Cat Paw
Guild Officer
Total Posts: 434
Location: Lacey, WA
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| 05/18/2007 12:36 PM |
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Posted By Trefalgar on 05/18/2007 7:51 AM Posted By Dhrydan on 05/17/2007 4:45 PM If you realize that you have enough, you are truly rich.
[Tao Te Ching 33] I thought that was always 'When you know when enough is enough, you will always have enough' - I'll have to look at the translations I have. BTW - who's book do you have, Tref? Translation is more of an art than a science, especially when it comes to ... well art and poetry. hehe. I've been glancing at this translation on teh intarweb: http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/taote-v3.html
Also of factor is the fact that the book has probably been translated numerous times, potentially losing something along the way. Thanks for the link though, I can now use down time to enlighten my mind, instead of enlightening my wallet at the snack machine.
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Marethen - 41 Frost Mage (Enchant 300 //Tailor 269)
Cearwyn - 33 Paladin (Engineer 172 //Mining 119) |
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Dhrydan
Webmaster
Guild Officer
Total Posts: 2971
Location: Seattle, WA
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| 05/18/2007 5:39 PM |
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Translation is more of an art than a science, especially when it comes to ... well art and poetry. hehe.
I've been glancing at this translation on teh intarweb:
Ah - very cool. I have about three different translations of the text (I took a course on Taosism, dealing with both the philosophical angle and the truely odd religious aspect) - and it always amazes me how very different the translations are. Both in substance and in allusions.
But Taosim was always one of my favorite mindsets - the idea that one's life should flow as a river of water - bending to the tide and affecting rather than effecting - and thereby bending others through their assertions and their own energy. Sort of like the image of the wandering samurai. I've always loved the idea that the Tao is a way of experiencing life and zeroing in on the energy that powers it - as opposed to the Buddhist who hides from it, striving the live shielded beneath the cobra and thereby able to experience the bliss found in emptiness. And as opposed to the cold logic and caste structure of Confuciounism.
Along those lines, I used to have a bumper sticker on the POS I drove in high school that read: "If the People lead, the leaders will follow." And it's still by far the way I try to lead my life.
(Chapter 24)
One who boasts is not established;
One who shows himself off does not become prominent;
One who puts himself on display does not brightly shine;
One who brags about himself gets no credit;
One who praises himself does not long endure.
In the Way, such things are called:
"Surplus food and redundant action."
And with things - there are those who hate them.
Therefore, the one with the Way in them does not dwell. |
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Dhrydan - 70 Restor Druid
Dhrymage - 61 Arcane Mage
Dhrybetankin - 43 Warrior
Dhrybestakin - 33 Shammy
Guild Officer & Webmaster |
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Dhrydan
Webmaster
Guild Officer
Total Posts: 2971
Location: Seattle, WA
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| 05/18/2007 5:44 PM |
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Not to change the subject but can someone tell me what book Forrest Whitaker was reading in the movie Ghost Dog?
Dunno, G - not sure I've seen the movie. |
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Dhrydan - 70 Restor Druid
Dhrymage - 61 Arcane Mage
Dhrybetankin - 43 Warrior
Dhrybestakin - 33 Shammy
Guild Officer & Webmaster |
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